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Data dodania: 4 sierpnia 2022, 06:35Amato has over 100 credits to his name as an actor. Perhaps, that is what Beth has had to say to herself because there is evidence that contradicts it. Beth Dutton received her scar on her face during an attack orchestrated by the Beck brothers. She constantly carries the guilt of the accident even though it was not her fault. 'Yellowstone' Star Gretchen Mol on Providing the Late Evelyn With a But we see flashbacks mostly from beths perspective which taints the memory. RELATED: Did John Dutton Die in the Yellowstone Series? ah, snowflakes isnt just a this generation meme then. We're firmly in a hiatus of Dutton family dramathe fifth (super-sized) season of Yellowstone is set to return with more (hopefully not final) episodes this summer, while the new prequel series 1923 is officially coming back for a second seasonbut that doesn't mean our minds aren't still on . For starters, she only made four appearances in the show, all of which were in a flashback or simply photos of her shown during the show. why was evelyn dutton so mean to bethamoila cesar net worth. It was all that was needed for a touching moment in the finale when Beth and Rip got married. And Beth has some major emotional issues with this. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. Her small yet impactful role in the modern Western drama has invariably shown her being tough and callous towards teenage Beth (Kylie Rogers). Yellowstone TV: Fans Debate Whether Evelyn Dutton Was Too Hard on Beth, re-watching flashbacks with her mother, Evelyn, bottle it up and channel that anger and hurt into strength. Fans will have to wait and see if any more flashbacks explain their strained relationship any further, but a new theory has proposed the upcoming Yellowstone prequel could also reveal more. See also What Does The Bible Say About A Godly Mother? Also, since I can remember shows are based on jacked up families with all kinds of rivalries, families/group that are in conflict, or ensemble casts with individuals who battle one another. It is not flattering at all. She played the role of Mikayla in the Disney XD sitcom Pair of Kings. 'Yellowstone' Star Kelly Reilly on Beth's Emotional Trauma - TV Insider Evelyn was bucked off her horse as Beth hesitated. While riding a horse with her mother and brother, Beth's hesitation resulted in her mom landing hard on the ground and getting crushed by one of the animals. There is one issue that Yellowstone refuses to touch, and that is how Beth being sterilized physiologically changed her. Evelyns monologue arguably sets in Beths mind that it is her against the world. 'Yellowstone': How Beth's Mother Had a Negative Impact - Outsider A past as "broken" as that of the Dutton family would scar anyone for life. All too true. His time on the hit drama came to an emotional end when he was killed by Jamie after Beth blackmailed him. Even so, their explanation could provide some valuable insight into the reasoning behind Evelyns hatred of her own child. Everythings different now. Categories . She is the mother of Lee, Beth and Kayce Dutton. Both siblings had to deal with their loss at a young age. Confused about Beth and her mom : YellowstonePN - reddit Beths mother died in a horseback riding accident when Beth was just six years old. After his wife and son have had traumatic moments at the ranch, Kayce decides to move his family away. Yellowstone season 4 episode 1 release date, cast, trailer, plot, Yellowstone season 4: Fans convinced Rip will die after glaring clue. Fifth - Kayce Dutton. I dont agree with it and the scene of falling off the horse could have been a moment Of compassion between mother and daughter but it shows how tough this woman really was. Doer. They reside and grow up on a ranch. The Entire Dutton Family Tree In Yellowstone Explained - Looper.com Despite having a chance to clarify that Beths sterility is due to tubal ligation, it seems to have doubled down on the implausible take that Beth had a full hysterectomy. Biography Early Life Throughout the series Little is mentioned about Evelyn initially, however the events surrounding her death slowly come to light. But he will be mad at Jamie. For all of Beths worship of her father, John Dutton is not (nor has he ever been) known for Danny Tanner-level heart-to-hearts. Fans of the Yellowstone series are on the edge of their seats as they watch the Dutton family fight to defend their lands. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Why does Evelyn Dutton hate Beth? Evelyn Dutton died when her children were still young. Introducing Evelyn Dutton (played by Gretchen Mol) via flashback, in the final moments before a fatal riding accident, reframes a lot of what the audience understood about the Dutton family.. Yes, Evelyn Dutton had a sister. Copyright 2023 Country Thang Daily, all rights reserved. She lost her job when the share holders for the bank demanded her removal. She is treating Beth with such disdain because she knows Beth will end up with Rip.. Columbia, South Carolina, United States of America, is home to an American actress namedKelsey Asbille Chow. But Beth got a raw deal from mommy dearest, one Reddit user writes in response to the original poster. And Beth has clearly made the choice to bottle it up and channel that anger and hurt into strength. What is the reason for Kayce to be branded? *Eclectic Pop's social media links are below* , The ending chapter of the 365 Days movie trilogy arrived on Netflix with the adaptation of Book 3, The Father Who Moves Mountains (Tata Muta Muntii) is a Romanian film currently streaming on Net, When is the next Mystery 101 movie premiering? Who is Wilford Brimley and Why Did Yellowstone Pay Tribute to Him? Evelyn Dutton | Yellowstone Wiki | Fandom Related: Is Yellowstone Based on a True Story? Good question. Now, an extreme event like that is just that, a freak event. Whether Jamie is being spiteful to get to Beth or not, his words land, bringing that guilt and anger to the surface, the guilt that others blame her for Evelyn Dutton's death. Its a storyline Yellowstone would shed significant light on throughout the first three seasons, with flashbacks in Season 3 lending harsh weight specifically to the Beth & Jamie dynamic. Summary: Evelyn Dutton was John Dutton's wife and mother of Lee, Jamie, Beth and Kayce. I think her mom loved her but wanted to make her strong in the town of ranchers and men. She lost her life on March 30, 1997, during a horseback riding accident. The self-described "tornado . Kayce left to be with Monica when she got pregnant with Tate and was branded out of spite by John. It is known that Beth keeps her sterility from everyone, and it remains the seething secret that understandably destroys her and Jamies relationship forever. One perceptive Yellowstone enthusiast thinks theyve finally cracked why Beths mother Evelyn Dutton (Gretchen Mol) treated her so poorly in the shows flashbacks. I think beths mom turned her tough love, I have to make you a man act on too strongly. This explanation makes sense to me. He was a very wise and compassionate man, and he passed down his values to his son. We use your sign-up to provide content in ways you've consented to and to improve our understanding of you. Jamie has two brothers and a sister, and he is the son of John and Evelyn Dutton. Why Does Beth Hate Jamie on Yellowstone? - Horsey Hooves During that time, Evelyn looks at Beth and says, She did this. Her horse got spooked and fell on her while she was out riding with Beth and Kayce. One thing is for sure, John Dutton hasnt moved on after losing his beloved spouse, even after decades have passed since her death. Since moving to the Dutton ranch with Kayce, Monica has had to deal with a number of traumas, the most recent of which was the attack in the season 4 premiere. John Duttons wife Evelyn Dutton died in a horseback riding accident on March 30, 1997. Her mother discovers shes just started her period for the first time and goes to comfort her. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The Dutton family hates Jamie because he is not a true Dutton. Beth even bathes in a trough and drinks champagne on the anniversary of her mothers passing, struggling to cope. Three and a half years ago, wrangler Jimmy Hurdstrom was branded with a red-hot Y iron, but actor Jefferson White remembers it well. Subscribe to our newsletter for new stories, tips & events. Yellowstone: TV series starring Kevin Costner from director/writer Taylor Sheridan. Her death had a profound impact on her children and continues to haunt them years later. Karma., But its u/meemf that gets to the core of Beth Dutton, adding I often think she acts so emotionless and distant because she is trying to reject her own emotions and appear unbreakable.. Evelyn Dutton is back again. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. Its a life choice many are familiar with. Yellowstone is available to stream on Philo and Peacock. As Yellowstone has moved forward, it has distanced itself from this part of Beths backstory. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. Hi, loving the series and finished it. What changed? Rip was discovered hiding in a. Back then and now, Beth continues to self-medicate with abundant alcohol and cigarette use. So, how did Evelyn Dutton die? When Beths riding scares the horse, it has a domino effect. Check out the adventures of Chewy the Top Pom on Eclectic *Pup* Click on the pic to travel through the wormhole! Why Did Yellowstone Pay Tribute to John Prine and Who is He? He has to keep John from finding out that Beth is pregnant and keep John from killing Rip if that truth were to surface. In a Reddit thread discussing the topic, one fan poses that Mama Dutton is CRAZY. If you recall, theres a moment from the first season when teenage Beth is riding a horse timidly alongside Kayce and her mom. Season 3 of Yellowstone continued with "Cowboys and Dreamers," which aired on Sunday, July 19. Before his father took over the ranch, his ancestors had already moved to the area. My grandpa insisted immediately she get right back on her horse, because in his crazy mind, her fear would not be conquered immediately and she would never ride again. The oldest Dutton sibling (Dave Annabel) died in season 1 during a dispute over cattle. Jamie helped Beth get pregnant when she was 15. Her mother passed away when she was young. ---- The appearances of Evelyn we see in Yellowstone are in flashbacks and photos shown of her. While riding a horse with her mother and brother, Beth's hesitation resulted in her mom landing hard on the ground and getting crushed by one of the animals. According to the Redditor, their father was Dirk. While Evelyn comforts Beth after she becomes a woman, she also gives a harsh speech about what it means to be a woman in the world. Kayce had a son named Tate who was Jamies nephew. Jamie may be more estranged than ever from the Duttons, but he has something Beth never can a biological child. What Happened to John Dutton's Wife? Evelyn Dutton Explained Jamies relationship with the family was complicated by the fact that he is the adopted son of John. However, she may have been closer to Kayce than any of her other children, as she was very honest with her and did not shy away from telling her the truth, even if it was difficult. Her small yet impactful role in the modern Western drama has invariably shown her being tough and callous towards teenage Beth (Kylie Rogers). I love how people think that word entitles them to absolution from the people whose lives they ruin. When viewers glimpse Beth in flashbacks during Season 1, it is obvious that Beth was not born with her claws out. John and Evelyn had four kids. She fought back but didnt know what to do. 2023 horseyhooves.com, part of the Hopnetic network. Jamies goal in this scenario is two-fold. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. She has never been able to get past that. Now because of that, Evelyn says she'll be harder on her so that she can turn Beth into something that most men will never be. Evelyn was annoyed by Beth's lack of self-confidence when she was a teenager. William was born in Denton, TX and currently resides in Austin. When Beths riding scares the horse, it has a domino effect. This has huge implications. After her mothers death, Beth is desperate for the warmth of a human soul. How Helen Keller Overcame the Barriers To Speech, Clocktane Octane Skin: Embodying a Timeless Style, Aldor vs. Scryers: Rogues Guide to Shattrath City, The Babyface Brothers Musical Legacy: Kevon, Melvin, and Kenneth. In the last moments of Lee, the brother in Kayces soul wakes up and ties to heal Lee but Lee finally succumbs to the injuries caused to him by the wounds of the bullet. She is the third youngest of the Dutton siblings, with Kayce being the youngest. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. (Not an excuse, I just remember that from those flashbacks).. Not every character on the show has really done much work on their self. I think people narrow Evelyn Dutton down to just Beth, and there is clearly a much bigger story then that. He never has been fully able to recover from her tragic death. So sad. Some of it got passed off as tough love and the boys got some of that too. Alan Jacksons Ill Fly Away Elevates Wisdom, Spirit, and Peace, Jimmy Fortunes Amazing Cover of the Song It Is No Secret, Shy and Spotlight Stealers: Meet Narvel Blackstocks Children, The Best Dolly Parton Quotes On Life, Love, Success, and Everything in Between. However, her appearances have been relegated to flashbacks as. That whole scenario still seems so out of place to me, they cite, calling it jarring., Thats an excellent one-word description of the flashback, to be sure. Theyre going to look at you different, see you different, and theyre going to look at you like youre less, like youre somehow weaker today than you were yesterday. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". The details of the accident are not clear, but it seems that Beths horse became spooked and threw her off, causing her mother to be fatally crushed by another horse. What other consequences Evelyns death has for the rest of the family remains to be seen. Her death took a toll on the family, being a traumatic experience for John and their children. Its not an advisable emotional strategy at all, but its the reality of the character. I know she's a very popular character, but I feel like she just sucks up the atmosphere on the show. She continues to wrestle with what ifs, self-loathing, guilt, and the weight of keeping her biggest truth from Rip. And his status or role on the show. DON'T MISS:Money Heist season 5 theories: Rios death sealed in throwback clue[THEORY]The Walking Dead: Showrunner opens up on dark final season[INTERVIEW]Below Decks Captain Lee addresses season 9 disappearance[INSIGHT]. READ MORE:Michael Parkinson breaks down in tears as he reflects on his career. Im not a horse expert, but ive been around them a fair amount. Fans of Yellowstone discuss in a post why John favors Kayce over Jamie. Yes it really does explain beth, but how could Kevin Costner marry someone so cold? "But after being treated like you're weaker long enough, you'll start to. He has also worked as a radio reporter and holds a degree from Moody College of Communication. So she could succeed in a mans world. As his wife and mother to his children, the passing of Evelyn Dutton was hard on John. So heres a link for the behind the scenes of that episode: Behind the Story - they touch on it a bit but not from Gretchens view of playing Evelyn that way. She will do anything to protect her family's land and reputation but has no interest in the ranch life. He considers Jamie to be more of a rival than his own son. Evelyn nver came to know her grandson as she died when she was out horse riding on March 30, 1997. No wonder, indeed. Christina told Jamie that he did exactly what he said he was going to do. Nope. 'The Next 365 Days' Book Vs. Movie Ending: How Different Is It? The actress told TV Line that the fear of losing her secret is too great. Jamie does not realize until he is signing Beth up for the procedure that for her to get an abortion there, she must also get sterilized. It's no secret that Beth hates Jamie with a fiery passion, and after he took her to get an abortion at a young age that resulted in her permanent infertility, she may have every right to be. John Dutton had to be aware of it on some level, enablers are seldom 100% unaware. I Lov this series Yellowstone its actresses & actors! She only makes four appearances in Yellowstone, as she passed away in 1997 when her children were still young. All those boys you used to outrun and outwrestle, thats all done, Evelyn (Gretchen Mol) says after a young Beth starts her period in this EXCLUSIVE preview of a Yellowstone flashback scene from the Aug. 8 episode. The appearances of Evelyn we see in Yellowstone are in flashbacks and photos shown of her. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. The doctor told Beth that she had changed her demeanor after she thanked the OBGYN. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Let her undo it. Beth becomes traumatized by the experience and her mothers harsh dying words. But on that day during a horseback ride with her mother and brother Beth's hesitation resulted in her mom landing hard on the ground and getting crushed by one of the animals. Rip loves Beth dearly, and he won't be mad at her when he finds out the truth of what happened. why was evelyn dutton so mean to beth - Sijme.com I mean she was the adult, Ok i am trying to apply logic when i dont know the rules but ?? New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Star Stable Codes (Updated) & How to Redeem Them, Who Is Bianca Rodrigues? As most Yellowstone fans know, Evelyn was tough on Beth during her childhood. As a daughter of a strong woman who many (including myself) write off as a a plain and simple bitch, I took it as that. However, that doesnt seem to be the case at all. HollywoodLife has an EXCLUSIVE preview of the Aug. 8 episode of 'Yellowstone.' She seemed like a b**ch. Yellowstone Fans Are Tired Of Beth Dutton's Cruel Treatment Of Jamie The showairs Wednesdays at 10 p.m. on Paramount Network. Who Is Beth Dutton? Yellowstone Character Guide, Facts & FAQs Dutton Family Tree - Yellowstone, 1923, 1883 Characters Explained | PRIVACY POLICY | TERMS OF SERVICE, {"email":"Email address invalid","url":"Website address invalid","required":"Required field missing"}, __CONFIG_colors_palette__{"active_palette":0,"config":{"colors":{"f3080":{"name":"Main Accent","parent":-1},"f2bba":{"name":"Main Light 10","parent":"f3080"},"trewq":{"name":"Main Light 30","parent":"f3080"},"poiuy":{"name":"Main Light 80","parent":"f3080"},"f83d7":{"name":"Main Light 80","parent":"f3080"},"frty6":{"name":"Main Light 45","parent":"f3080"},"flktr":{"name":"Main Light 80","parent":"f3080"}},"gradients":[]},"palettes":[{"name":"Default","value":{"colors":{"f3080":{"val":"rgb(23, 23, 22)","hsl":{"h":60,"s":0.02,"l":0.09}},"f2bba":{"val":"rgba(23, 23, 22, 0.5)","hsl_parent_dependency":{"h":60,"s":0.02,"l":0.09,"a":0.5}},"trewq":{"val":"rgba(23, 23, 22, 0.7)","hsl_parent_dependency":{"h":60,"s":0.02,"l":0.09,"a":0.7}},"poiuy":{"val":"rgba(23, 23, 22, 0.35)","hsl_parent_dependency":{"h":60,"s":0.02,"l":0.09,"a":0.35}},"f83d7":{"val":"rgba(23, 23, 22, 0.4)","hsl_parent_dependency":{"h":60,"s":0.02,"l":0.09,"a":0.4}},"frty6":{"val":"rgba(23, 23, 22, 0.2)","hsl_parent_dependency":{"h":60,"s":0.02,"l":0.09,"a":0.2}},"flktr":{"val":"rgba(23, 23, 22, 0.8)","hsl_parent_dependency":{"h":60,"s":0.02,"l":0.09,"a":0.8}}},"gradients":[]},"original":{"colors":{"f3080":{"val":"rgb(23, 23, 22)","hsl":{"h":60,"s":0.02,"l":0.09}},"f2bba":{"val":"rgba(23, 23, 22, 0.5)","hsl_parent_dependency":{"h":60,"s":0.02,"l":0.09,"a":0.5}},"trewq":{"val":"rgba(23, 23, 22, 0.7)","hsl_parent_dependency":{"h":60,"s":0.02,"l":0.09,"a":0.7}},"poiuy":{"val":"rgba(23, 23, 22, 0.35)","hsl_parent_dependency":{"h":60,"s":0.02,"l":0.09,"a":0.35}},"f83d7":{"val":"rgba(23, 23, 22, 0.4)","hsl_parent_dependency":{"h":60,"s":0.02,"l":0.09,"a":0.4}},"frty6":{"val":"rgba(23, 23, 22, 0.2)","hsl_parent_dependency":{"h":60,"s":0.02,"l":0.09,"a":0.2}},"flktr":{"val":"rgba(23, 23, 22, 0.8)","hsl_parent_dependency":{"h":60,"s":0.02,"l":0.09,"a":0.8}}},"gradients":[]}}]}__CONFIG_colors_palette__. There could be many reasons why Evelyn was mean to Beth, but one possible reason is that Evelyn was trying to toughen Beth up. In an interview with actress Kelly Reily, who portrays Beth, she states that We get to see this very pure young girl go through such a trauma. Beth Dutton | Western Series Wiki | Fandom why was evelyn dutton so mean to beth Yet as Redditor AmericanWanderlust cites: Wasnt the mom trying to toughen Beth up? Thats why Im going to have to be harder on you, honey. Throughout Yellowstone, John does have romantic relationships with Governor Lynelle Perry and Summer Higgins. Powers Symphony Breeze: An Emerging New Force, Areas of Expertise: How to Identify and Turn Potential Into Experience, The Secrets to An Abundance Of Castle Spire Holly, Toyotas BSM Light: All About This Essential Feature, Boiling Grinder in Milk The Best Cleaning Solution, Identifying the Validity of Inductive Arguments, The Inimitable Courage and Sacrifice of Bianca di Angelo. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. Jamie is the father of a boy. Learn More. Evelyn Dutton existed in flashbacks STRICTLY for Beth's story, and no other reason at all. The Dutton sibling's . Monica Long was married to Kayce and they had a son named Tate. As for Beth, she gets traumatized by the incident and the harsh dying words of her mother. Evelyn was a successful horse breeder who raised quarter horses on her ranch in Montana. About halfway through their meal, John's . The Beth Scene That Went Too Far On Yellowstone - Looper.com This rather outlandish theory proposes Evelyn harboured secret feelings for Beths intermittent boyfriend and Johns surrogate son, Rip. While that might just be a detail for . Maybe it was the writers fault, thats what I assume, but that scene did not fit with Evelyns previous dealings with Beth, they add. Second - John Dutton Sr. Third - John Dutton Jr. Fourth - John Dutton III. The next time we see her, Beth has just "entered womanhood" and she seems better toward Beth if not begrudgingly. You should try zoomba. Son Gncelleme : 26 ubat 2023 - 6:36. Beth Dutton. Not as soon or as certainly as fans once thought. In a previous episode of Yellowstone, Jamie took Beth to an abortion that ended with her being forced to have sex. Johns sister is played byAudie Rick. Yellowstone Wiki is a FANDOM TV Community. Did John Dutton Die in the Yellowstone Series? There was a tender moment during Christmas when Beth doesnt come downstairs to open presents. Iheartsev replies with the perfect answer, however. 'Yellowstone' Season 5: 'Why Is Beth So Mean?' Fully Explained why was evelyn dutton so mean to beth A past as broken as that of the Dutton family would scar anyone for life. As a young . Summary: Evelyn Dutton was John Dutton's wife and mother of Lee, Jamie, Beth and Kayce. Jamies biological father was sent to prison for the murder of his mother. Was there something I missed that sheds light on this? Also is it just me or was Beths mother a bit of a b****? shoots tomcookgod. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". Even Beth herself spoke about Evelyn as being the spine of the family. Seemingly, their two supernatural connections would have linked them together, were it not for Beths interference. 'Yellowstone': What Happened to John Dutton's Wife? She is a former major player at Schwartz & Meyer, one of Montana's leading banks and she is a cut throat business woman. Her family treats this as Beth being Beth instead of trying to help her or seek deeper answers as to why she is seeking to self-medicate. Maybe her mom knew this was a make or break moment for Beth as young girl and really wanted to make sure her tough love didnt amount to nothing? Evelyn may have been trying to push Beth out of her comfort zone in order to help her become more confident. No wonder Beth is a mess. Yellowstone fans are coming to the Dutton daughters defense after re-watching flashbacks with her mother, Evelyn. As a kid, Beth had a relatively normal upbringing though her mom was often hard on her. 'Belle de Jour' Movie Review: The Meaning of a 65-Year Opus. Why did Jon and Evelyn Dutton adopt Jamie? When the horse fell on her she straight up told a 10 year old that it was her fault if she died, while basically saying that Kayce was the child she loved most. And why Beth is the way she is. But as the series has moved along, her hate for him continues to grow more and more intense, and some fans think she's gone overboard. 'Yellowstone' on Paramount Network: The Episode 3 - IndieWire She has more chemistry with him than summer. Costner and Reilly arent related to each other in real life. Dreamer. TV Review: YELLOWSTONE: Season 1, Episode 3: No Good Horses - FilmBook Redditor iheartsev agrees that Beths mother seemed way too nasty b****y to her during that last ride with Kayce and Beth. Throughout Yellowstone, Beth struggles to deal with the death of her mother. Why did she even blame her for falling off? OK. horses spook. Conversely, opting to make it all about the other reason Beth is so mean. Evelyn has briefly appeared throughout the series as a cold-hearted parent to her and John Dutton's (Kevin Costner) only daughter. Which is what I think Evelyn had to do herself. Yellowstone Finally Revealed Why Beth Hates Jamie - TV Guide This supposed matriarch that John has been pining away for or Beth cant get over, sure seemed kind of insensitive and spiteful. Though Beth is able to find her father and bring him to her injured mother, they are too late. Seventh - Unknown. And any Yellowstone diehard knows theres none more intriguing than Beth Dutton. Bottom lineif someone stole your Rip, youd be a b***h too.. Prior to her death, Beth became nervous on her horse, causing her horse to spook leading to Evelyns horse to spook too. and no they did not explain it, except to say that the condo developer did it, i think. What Happened to Lee Dutton? Death, History & FAQS Answered Its not an excuse, but I was just a better father when she was with me.. So I just binged the first three seasons and have a few questions, begins Yellowstone fan tomcookgod over on Reddit. Bethany Dutton | Yellowstone Wiki | Fandom I remember there was a video interview of Gretchen talking about it but I havent had luck finding it.